I have another question to put. There's a person, who don't know anything about CT, can he operate CT without knowing it, if he is not aware of the skill of using them in proper way. Lets suppose, last year one of the student of LUMS commited suicide and the genuine reason on record given was he getting low grades.
One thing is quite obvious, it is the mental pressure that he couldn't handle. He must have other options/alternatives to deal with this internal conflict, He must have visited his teachers and friends for counselling, He must have changed his study tactics to get better grades...this struggle of getting into the better option and using it, is it CT ??
If Yes, If he was apply CT in his personal problems, Can he reach to the better conclusion ??
Can anyone do this, without knowing this skill of learning CT.
I personally think that the element of critical thinking are innate. we study CT for a deeper understanding and to develop a broader perspective. we categorize CT using element while people not familiar to CT use CT in a different perspective. probably developing an innate perspective of CT
ReplyDeleteI’ll answer this even though this really is a question that seems to be more in the counseling domain than in ours, in CT learning. But, please no further discussion on this issue as that will side track us.
ReplyDeleteWithout knowing the facts, one can only conjecture in this case.
To me it sounds like a stress & (unusually high) external expectations based & or triggered, clinical depression which led to suicide. Such dramatic self-harm generally does not happen overnight. This student is likely to have had a history of inabilities to deal with pressure, stress, itself triggered by obviously some kind of earlier trauma. I suspect there was also a self-esteem & shame issue.
Long & short, when someone is in such a vulnerable state, it’s unlikely that they (by themselves) could constructively use their cognitive capabilities (act on positive rationale/reasoning) that a regular, so-called ‘normal’ person could or might. Counseling – if used – could have saved this person.
Regards,
Faheem
@Miqdad: I've no idea what you are saying. What is your point about? And how is it related to what Sarnmad has posted, if it is related to it?
ReplyDeleteRegards,
Faheem
my point was that elements of critical thinking are innate, its just we're not familiar to the terminologies. before committing suicide an individual may have evaluated his action critically but solving the puzzle according to the ct model may not be possible because he/she is not familiar to the subject
ReplyDeleteIf the CT is innate the person should resolve the puzzle, why do you think he needs familiarity with the subject ?
ReplyDeletesorry miqdad, but what do you exactly mean by "innate"? and when you say that the elements are innate, do you also consider standards to have been pre-applied on the elements?
ReplyDeleteYes, I think thats what he is assuming, well its a serious questions, Can we have the abilities of applying CT in our lives by default, without knowing even... ??
ReplyDeleteMiqdad,
ReplyDeleteI know what you are trying to say but not being able to articulate it with clarity & precision (standards!). This brings out a very important dimension of CT - the ability to communicate with clarity & precision. I think what you are trying to imply with the use of the word "innate" is really that we all have the ability to apply the elements of thinking. And that all we really need is to put it together & apply it. Adeel picks on this point when he asks you what you mean by "innate"; he's using some aspect of the "SEE-I" to get clarity.
The ability to use elements of thinking does not come naturally; it's not factory fitted. This is what Sarmad is patially hinting at, I think. He is also, probably, suggesting that basically some people are smarter than others & have strogner abilities to recognize, use & take advantage of the elements of thinking. The reason we go through the elements of thinking is because fundamentally our thoughts are scattered & cluttered. That, in essence, is what is innate about thinking.
Regards,
Faheem
at what Sir Faheem just said, I have to agree with the fact that some people are more smarter than others..but when we talk about suicide, it has alot to do with emotions. If a person was thinking critically, one would not commit suicide in the first place. Because he would "critically" analyze everything, his whole life. Suicide is an extremely rash and mostly harsh decision made by a person in whihc he is so full of emotions and can not deal with it. So at the time o committing that suicide he would not be thinking and listening to just his emotions.
ReplyDeleteCorrect me if i am wrong, but i believe that The people who actually think critically would not get to the point of committing suicide because thinking "critically" means analyzing your emotions, thoughts, perspectives and biases rationally.
so what you mean is that suicide cannot be rational at all? that a time may never come in an individual's life where suicide may seem to be the best solution even after thinking critically?
ReplyDeletewhat if the person just wants to die? does that even require a reason? i mean how many people continue living without a reason, can't it be rational for someone to not find any reason worth living for and thus choosing death?
I think you're making too many generalizations without thinking of the core. Let's take an example of a person who wants to commit suicide. Firstly, we can easily assume that person is a pessimist. He believes that life isn't worth living, for whatever reason. Secondly, he must not have the right groundings in religion, as every single religion condems suicide, so perhaps he is an atheist, or someone who is not too religious, or has the wrong concepts about religion (suicide bombers?)He probably has had bad experiences in his life, making him think that it really isnt worth it, and dying would be easier.
ReplyDeleteHowever, i've personally gone through the statistics of suicide, they state that a person at the time of committing suicide, has had a rush of adrenaline so that he is able to do that (that is what i meant when i said suicide is often completely irrational, when a person goes through an adrenaline rush, one cannot think properly).
Thinking critically allows you to view the best option there is. The best option is never suicide, as that is giving up. If you are a critical thinker, you'd be an avid believer of trying and would look at the people who have succeeded rather than those who have failed. I dont believe a good critical thinker can be a pessimist, as CT traits do not allow him to be so.
how can we "easily" assume that the person is a pessimist? what if he has some concept of the "next" life which he thinks/believes will be better than this one?
ReplyDeleteand how can we say that "he must not have the right groundings in religion" ? that assumes that we know the "right groundings" of religion!
and do we have enough knowledge to claim that "every single religion condems suicide"? what about those religions/sects that promote self-punishment?
at the time of committing suicide, adrenaline level may be high. but don't some people "plan" their suicides? what about "collective suicides" or "mercy killing"?
and you said "The best option is never suicide, as that is giving up". but giving up to what? if a person really has no purpose to live or has completed all the purposes that s/he wanted to complete then what would s/he be giving up to?
and even if suicide was giving up, why can't giving up be a critically-thought-off solution? if I have some problem ahead of me that I just can't solve (or avoid)and I have done whatever I could, what should I do? from an option of fight or flight, is only "fight" the critical solution?
Self punishment and suicide are two completely different concepts, mind you. I have researched enough on suicide to know that NO religion says "commit suicide", even the Wicca religion condems it. If you find one, please let me know. Thus, if a person does commit suicide, he will NOT be too religious, have the wrong understanding of his religion. That is plain obvious.
ReplyDeleteAlso, please keep in mind, we are not studying an individual case. We are talking about suicide in general. Even in the scientists have to end up generalizing at one point or the other.
As for collective suicides and planned suicides-- just because they have planned it, does not mean they are just feeling no absolute rush before committing suicides. Statistics say, (I'll give you the websites to prove these statistics if you want) that the average suicide bomber, normally runs or takes a bit of caffeine, drugs, any sort of thing that can get his "high" on. That is why, right before the time bomb is abotu to go off, his body reacts, it is said in studies that th rate at which a person committing suicide beats faster than normal..why? because of the RUSH.
Also, we "assume" he is a pessimist, BECAUSE he wants to give up. He doesnt feel life worth living for anymore.
I am sorry, but I feel that Sir Faheem should address this. I really dont believe that ANY critical thinker can commit suicide.
Ending ones life i feel is an irrational decision. If living had no purpose, if we were all just supposed to give up or "flight", then what's the point of living at all? And is that not pessimistic thought, when one feels that there is NO POINT IN LIFE? No way to solve a problem?
II agree withThe Observant.it is important to distinguisht between the concept of suicide and self punishment. No religion in the world instructs its followers to commit suicide. Therefore, it is quite obvious that if a person commits suicide that means he lost his faith in God and his religion. Suicide itself is a very cowardly practice, religion or no religion!
ReplyDeleteThen springs the question that if one is an Apt Critical Thinker will he be religiously bound? We've already argued on the religion vs critical thinking bit and I have concluded, even though some of my colleagues feel otherwise that they are two separate entities and do not go hand in hand. Thus can we argue, that if one is not religiously bound but is a critical thinker, or vice versa, that suicide may be a very attractive answer? Or does one need to have both Religion and CT inculcated in him to make completely rational decisions.
ReplyDeleteI think that the student faced depression because
ReplyDeletelow grades stressed the student so the student was unable to think critcally as depression affects learning and memory.